Binary History and lack of Nuances, the problem in Studying the Spanish Empire

During the last Vidchat, Dr. Farrell observations about binary history got me thinking deeply. A lot of historians can’t do an adequate interpretation of what was the story of a political society and community, that was so complex and with so many edges as the Spanish Empire.

The Spanish Empire let’s say from 1500 - 1800 has been partly forgotten when it comes to write the development of Europe and Western predominance over the planet. I submit, this is due to a fundamental reason; historians have viewed things using capitalist parameters as a way to explain all European societies, all economic systems, all political phenomena. From the Renaissance all the way to the 20th century, historians always viewed things from a capitalist perspective to be able to explain everything.

Of course, when we stumble with the discovery of the Americas —I prefer Las Indias sounds more mysterious and romantic— we immediately stumble with a reality and that is the system of financial industrial capitalism, that help us explain the colonialism and the great global empires of the 19th and 20th century; is a parameter that doesn’t serve us completely, to be able to explain the conquest of the Americas. Why? Because one thing is a society during the Renaissance and another a capitalist society in the 19th and 20th century.

There has been stabs at this with mixed results. For example, The Annales School of History with Fernand Braudel. There are Marxist theories of history but those have not concentrated in the study of Spanish Empire. There is a whole generation of foreign historians, that specialized in the study of Spain in the 50’s, 60’s, 70’s. People like Stanley G. Payne, Henry Kamen, John Elliot, Joseph Pérez, etc. There are a lot of people that criticize them for a variety of reasons. They are an example that the Marxist parameters of historical materialism have not been applied when studying the Spanish Empire. That doesn’t mean their history of the Spanish Empire is bad, John Elliot, Stanely Payne, have done their stabs about the topic.

Dr. Juan Bautista Fuentes Ortega, a professor at the Complutense University of Madrid. He argues that what Spain constructed in America, and other places in the world, it’s not a feudal society, nor a capitalist society, but a kind of alternative modernity, that was build during the Spanish golden age. An alternative modernity that was defeated by the existing modernity of capitalism.

So the question is, did Spain brought to the Americas a feudal or capitalist system, or is really an alternative modernity that was different from the one that triumphed? I think the answer is not in binary history. Personally, I agree in part with Dr. Fuentes Ortega. Spanish society — or Hispanic American, or Amerindian— the Spanish/Indian society that was formed in the Americas was extraordinarily complex. Not only because the extension of the territory — that goes from Buenos Aires to California— but because in the Americas there was a lot of different Indigenous communities. Not only were they absorbed by the Spanish Monarchy, in many cases they were left intact. One example that I like very much is the Inca aristocracy. They continued governing and applying their class order inside the Spanish Empire. In other words, the Inca aristocracy was not overthrown by the Spaniards, but continued exercising power inside the Viceroyalty of Peru. In the case of Mexico it was different because the Aztec empire and society was dissolved completely by Hernán Cortés.

Was there an alternative modernity to Feudalism and Capitalism? I would say only in part for one reason, Renaissance Spain is a society that is already imbued in mercantilism. So was the Spanish Empire disconnected completely from industrial modern capitalism? Yes absolutely, but careful, mercantilism was well established in Castile and they had important commercial companies with the Netherlands and England before the conflicts with the Protestants. In regards to feudalism, it also depends on the region, because, if we are talking about the Viceroyalty of Peru, there is proof that there were some Inca elites, who continued exercising a certain type of feudalism that was practiced before the arrival of the Spaniards.

The Spanish Empire is a very complex reality, because is an enormous land mass and the provinces were diverse. The Spanish Monarchy had to adapt their strategies of evangelization and relationships with those communities given the great diversity. The governance was not the same, say in Texas, Colombia or Peru. I do think the Spanish Empire was an alternative modernity but the microscope has to be adjusted on the different Vice royalties and provinces.

Why I wrote this? What is bugging Mr. Kenny? In the last Vidchat Dr. Farrell was spot on, we have a binary way of looking at history and there is no nuance. I submit that The United States of America has two Mother Countries Spain and Britain. The US exists because Spain — all of it— said so. The Revolutionary army was funded with silver from the Viceroyalty of New Spain, Peru, and coined in Cuba. The country was recognized as a nation by Spain, before Washington won any decisive battles.The name The United States was given by the governor of Cuba.

The Black Legend of the Spanish Empire is as bad as knocking down statues of Jefferson Davis. When the US promotes the Black Legend they are destroying their own history. For example, does anyone in America knows that San Juan remained loyal to the Spanish Empire to the bitter end? That just like we are loyal to America now, we were loyal to Spain. There should be no shame with this, and yet we get the Spanish bad and Mesoamerica was a primordial paradise version of history.

Many years ago I had a manager that was from Taiwan. He was essentially Chinese but not communist, as it seems most people from Taiwan are.
In a discussion with him I asked him how his immediate ancestors felt about the Japanese occupation of Taiwan. This upset him and he claimed that was a lie and that I was lying that was ever a reality.

In the same way I must say one good thing about the USA in that regard. Most Americans are not deluded on how our history is a patchwork of other nations and tribes that eventually resulted in the United States.

However, in that regard to me, I feel that Latin America’s failures (and wins) are mostly due to a Catholic mindset (similar to an Orthodox Christian mindset) that somehow makes the individual mindset in regard to nationalism somewhat schizo. Do you adhere to your nation state, or to the pope? You see?
So since northern Euro’s went protestant, then they were relieved of having an allegiance to a two headed system. In the protestant system, you have physical allegiance to yourself and your nation, and ONLY metaphysical allegiance to your God. Whereas in the orthodox and catholic systems, the nation/god allegiance is somewhat the same. Because of that, there is a general c’est la vie that slows you down in the nation state arena.

I prefer the use of Hispanic America when referring to the Spanish speaking territories from New Spain to Tierra del Fuego. Ibero America if one includes Brazil. Latin America has geopolitical connotations and was a term created by the French. The only “Latin Americans” live in Quebec and French Guyana.

Hispanic America failure has nothing to do with Roman Catholicism which is our foundational faith. The chaos that you see now is the result of the civil wars and the balkanization of the region. Simon Bolivar and Jose de San Martin were the main characters in those civil wars, who basically sold out to the British, bought all their Masonic pirate lies, and gave the empire away. Made the whole region subservient to British interests. All you see down there is a by-product of that. We were a huge transatlantic that was sunk by the British. Nothing to do with Popes.

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Thank you, Kenny, for adding to our knowledge about the Spanish Empire!

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A very interesting and thought-provoking commentary and at first read I have to say I have to agree with it. The point about Spain and the founding of the USA is indeed true, because anyone who delves deeply into the details of the financial-monetary history of this country will soon discover that the American dollar itself is based in large part on definitions reliant upon the then-circulating Spanish dollar and even Spanish pieces of eight.

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Yep, Perfidious Albion strikes again. They took over South America first thru Portuguese Brazil later by revolutionary coups of Bolivar and San Martin.

Trump continues to duel with Crown over ME, soon we will see moves over South America. For now my working hypothesis is that Trump wants America to finally decouple from British Empire.

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Several companies are making replicas of the Spanish pieces of eight. Queen Isabela left us a hard asset, debt free currency. In my opinion, one of the reasons for why Queen Isabela should be canonized. I am willing to speculate, back in the day, Spanish silver dollars caused sleepless nights with many financiers and bankers in Europe.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/gC4rLiREicQ

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Although I can see where you are coming from with that, I do not think that since the United States adapted the Monroe doctrine that England has had any real and lasting cultural influence on Central/North/South America other than where it retained colonies. However since England has been the center of banking until very recently, I assume that is what you are talking about?
I do not think it is that odd that Bolivar made promises to the English crown to gain independence from Spain. Have all Hispanic nations been in such debt to England since that time to still be under their thumb? I do not know, I am assuming that you do, and I would like to hear why.

The people that carried out the revolutions were some well-known figures in the vice royalties. Others were shopkeepers and smugglers. Others were slave owners. Freemasons and people who weren’t Christians. These were the heroes of the revolutions. People with a short-term vision. I don’t know how to do it justice and describe it. You need to have the mindset of empire! When the revolutions started happening, there were people that understood the empire. All our trade routes, the currency and system of commerce, etc. Those were the first people that sounded the alarm and the first to be killed. There is a known document written by the British called “A Proposal for Humbling Spain” is an interesting read give it a try. https://issuu.com/adelantereunificacionistas/docs/a_proposal_for_humbling_spain_written_in

Simon Bolivar — The Napoleon of retreats— gave up many of the regional mines to the British for exploit. The brilliant “revolutionaries” started giving natural resources away to borrow from the British. After the civil wars many of the new “countries” had to refinanced their debts several times. I think the last country to pay was Ecuador in the 1940’s.

In 2025 the President of Venezuela talks about a “Bolivarian revolution” while England has the country gold reserves. In Chile Augusto Pinochet ruled for almost twenty years, took selfies with Margaret Thatcher and gave the country away to British companies. Argentina with the occupation of Malvinas. Javier Millei is a British agent, wants to sell the country away. No industrialization, selling natural resources, and following the British script to the letter.

Everybody put their fingers on the pie, not just Great Britain. I think after the civil wars a decision was reached where Britain would plunder South America and the US would focus more on Central America. Even the Soviets showed up and started to spread the black legend “evil Spaniards” nonsense.

The region went from a single unit, with a common currency, common language, common trade routes spreading across five continents, etc. From that, to twenty different countries that were unstable and poor. You travel to Dominican Republic, Chile, Peru and you realize there is no way for them to have an economy of scale. They start an industry for making bricks, then reality hits, for whom? for their home town? Now if you add a client base of 700 million people in an organized coordinated region and now they are on business. I support the formation of a regional block. They can have their own currency and economy of scale. Worked for several centuries before the balkanization.

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