Persona pirates, identity theft in an AI world

Interesting issue being discussed here by Rick Beato. With AI driven deep fake content stealing ad revenue and driving internet traffic away from the original content creators there needs to be new copyright law for this new AI age.

This raises the issue of what is being termed ‘Persona pirates’ not only regurgitating your content and identity but also your style and idiosyncrasies.

The lawyer here mentions that Anthropic and others are scraping the entire internet and this will reveal the hidden copyright infringements.

It should be mentioned that AI is itself born of a complete disregard for the copyright of the sum of human knowledge so I guess these companies get a pass (golden ticket at the chocolate factory)

This whole thing reminds me of the origins of banking and the golden ticket (right to print currency, mint coins etc)

We are at that stage, one of these AI companies could become the Tyrell Corp of the future.

It seems the tooling and the public infrastructure are being assembled for a public good but what happened with banking?

Ultimately who owns the copyright on humanity?
Will they be back to give us our third copyright strike?
What have the Vogons got to do with it?

Answers on a postcard please! (Or just here will do)

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Great line.

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I wonder if the AI “creators” remember what happen to Mr. Tyrell?

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The latest round of fear-mongering suggests these companies are a little concerned to say the least!

And right on cue…

I don’t think it’s the AI companies that are producing the Deep Fakes. Non-consensual deepfake pornography, voice cloning scams, video deepfakes for fraud / impersonation are mostly produced by local AI that people build on their own computers. The AI companies will not allow you to do anything close to that. I once tried to do a search on a local business, to see what the hell they did, and it thought I was attempting to track an individual and I was denied service. I just wanted the AI to help me find the legitimate websites this business was advertising on.

Rick supports local AI as he did a video on it. A legitimate use for a musician would be a composer without an orchestra writing a score and being able to hear it back without hiring the New York Philharmonic to do a rehearsal.

I’d be interested to hear Rick’s opinion on the entire Napster and peer to peer lawsuits. People uploaded their records and CD’s and distributed the music to anybody that had a computer and an internet connection. Alot of artists had a problem with it. And many did not and used it for better promotion.

Many considered Napster (and similar P2P services like Kazaa) as legitimate peer-to-peer technology that was unfairly targeted and shut down by industry and government forces, with Metallica serving as a convenient public surrogate rather than genuine aggrieved artists. Bands like Metallica make nothing from royalties and never did. .0003 cents per play?

So the government went after users and that shifted the entire industry to the Amazon model. You own NOTHING!! You don’t own the book you buy for kindle nor do you own the music.

The lawsuits against peer to peer providers actually created the hostile environment that we are in. Industrial control. P2P innovation threatened the industry’s control and we know the corruption in the music and movie business.

End-user lawsuits + forcing tech companies to police and assume liability was disproportionate and revealed the true power dynamics between the music industry, government, and emerging tech.

I personally wouldn’t upload my personal music collection so a group of strangers in the world could enjoy it.

The same battle goes on with writers. Many writers claim that giving out free books or portions of the writings actually helps physical sales. The samething happened with google that’s happening with Anthropic.

They scanned every possible book and created google books so you could read at least parts of the book before purchasing. Google was not found liable for copyright infringement but made big settlements out of court.

After more than a decade of litigation, U.S. courts ultimately held that Google’s mass scanning for search and limited snippet display was lawful fair use. Google was not “punished” for scanning the volumes without permission.

Rick and his lawyer friend are claiming the same thing. Fair use allows him to show video’s of bands, and strum other people’s tunes for purposes of teaching. Rick and everyone else in the music industry consider Don Henley of the Eagles a tyrant. I totally see nothing wrong with Rick and other music critics use of music for this purpose.

I’m not saying that uploading your recordings was right either. Some artists like Dave Mathews released singles on napster, every one downloaded it for free, and he still made tons as the song went to #1 and he filled stadiums. How most famous musicians make the big money.

Prince, The Beatles, definitely Metallica, Led Zepplin and others are very aggressive to protect their music. Each of them different with the latitude given.

Many people who believe in natural rights believe that copyright as an extension of tangible property rights into the realm of intellectual creations.
This includes Ayn Rand and various mainstream libertarian writers who defend IP as part of a free society.

Then there is the anti copyright natural rights people that believe copyright is not a natural property right but a government-granted monopoly that restricts what other people may do with their own physical property (their computers, printers, hard drives, voices, etc.).

Historical origins: Copyright began as a tool of state censorship and monopoly privilege (e.g., the Stationers’ Company in England), not as a pure recognition of natural rights.

The other question is the ability to clone someone’s image or in this case, the guys studio. Supreme court says there is no expectation of privacy in public. I can take pictures of you all day if both you and I are on a public space. By going out in public, you knowingly make yourself observable by others. You cannot simultaneously demand that strangers ignore what is in plain sight.

If I’m out filming and you have a big window that allows people to see inside, it’s possible it could be allowed. And in the United States you can publish that picture. I wouldn’t do it myself but the 1st amendment allows for it. So now the arguement of persona pirates. If I take a picture of you in public, I can also publish it. How is this different? I don’t know. Not asserting a truth rather asking questions.

AI companies are arguing over whether to share their AI models with everyone or keep them locked up. An “open” model is like a recipe posted online: anyone can download it, run it on their own computer, study it, and change it.

A “closed” model is like a secret restaurant recipe: you can order the food, but you can’t see how it’s made, and the company decides who gets to use it and how. People who favor open models say sharing helps science move faster, lets more people and smaller companies build useful things, keeps any one company from having too much power, and gives defenders tools to fight hackers.

People who favor closed models say that once a powerful AI is shared, there’s no way to take it back, so bad actors could use it for things like cyberattacks, and the company can no longer add safety limits.

The fight has grown bigger because Chinese companies have released free open models that are almost as good as the best American ones, so now it’s also about which country leads in AI. Many big U.S. tech companies argue America needs strong open models to compete, while Anthropic, the company that makes me, argues the most powerful models should only go to trusted groups. In the end, the debate comes down to one big question: who should control this powerful technology?

Do we want government to do what they did with Napster? Do we want government to go into Rick Beato’s house and remove his local models?

BTW, I have had my intellectual discoveries that were not published in any book on cycles and market forecasting co-opted and monetized. And have seen my work on others youtube video’s. I know what it feels like. I closed down my social media and stopped sharing. The average person didn’t get what I was doing but the eyes of people that were interest in glory and making money from the model stole it.

I personally find all these questions quite difficult and delicate issues.

Turkeys don’t vote for Christmas obviously.

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By the way, your initial commentary neglected the main subject of the video and you went for the AI comment at the end. That was my tell.

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And? I chose a section of the video to highlight an issue with AI scraping the internet and all associated risks to privacy that brings.

Do you wish to add light to the conversation or just troll?

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Whether if they appear on the Internet or out in public, actions and ideas are in the public square. They can be attributed to the actors and authors, that’s about it. As for monetary compensation, the rules are vast and varied. One rule will not due.

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Love the book and its title, in your cartoon!

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You didn’t address any issues. You offered a couple of memes on the topic addressed in the video.

I offered a 1200 word response detailing all the issues addressed in the video. That isn’t the definition of a troll. I’ve thought about these issues many times especially copyright issues as well as the AI issue that is somewhat troubling which is more of a low life issue rather than the collapse of western society issue.

You responded by selectively quoting something that by itself makes no sense, quote mining/ contextomy and following up a reasoned argument with a rhetorical dismissal. That’s called bad faith engagement. Followed up by dismissal by labelling aka Troll. Sorry, but that’s third world. The invasion has succeeded.

I believe my contribution to this forum shows a good faith exchange of idea’s and I do so by example. Your comment is out of place. I actually addressed the core topic of the video and have addressed the problem of fake id’s on social media being out of hand.

The meme highlights the paradox of sloppy thinking while critiquing what you perceive to be a threat to our well being. I already lightly addressed this in Roberts last post. I’ll fix that and directly address it by showing how much of what you’re reacting to is a moral panic that has been on and off again since 1869? I’ll check the date.

I believe your analogy of the Tyrell corporation is a tell that you are merely repeating what is being broadcasted to you.

And of course, I welcome well reasoned challenges to my thinking. And I will certainly follow up with what I think is going on here. Most definitely. I think there are legitimate concerns but much of it is simply engaging with a morphic field that was established well before anyone even started to think about these thing.

The fear mongering is being given to you. That’s not endorsing the ethics of these companies like Google and Anthropic, it’s simply something that is not new.

I’m aware this is a challenging issue and a delicate issue and so if I take my private time to address it, I’ll put forth my best.

One attempts to put their best foot forward in a public forum.

No offense to Rick Beato. I watched Rick from the beginning when he was talking about his son’s perfect pitch and doing free form piano pieces teaching the Greek Modes. He lost me when he started doing guitar lessons online. But once he moved into interviewing some of the living jazz giants. I became interested again.

But I’m starting to believe Rick is becoming Graham Hancock. Everything people learn on one subject is gotten from one source.

There is no dirth of cultural and music commentators and some have more depth from a musical content point of view. Rick is well respected and did an amazing job building is channel. But I"m also starting to wonder if non-musicians are watching it for the same reason the elite go to orchestra. Because it’s the thing to do to be cool.

I was asking questions, I didnt claim to address any issues.

You are clearly using AI to write your walls of text as we can all see in your response.

Making memes of people is not trolling? Ok whatever.

Life is too short my friend, if you cant engage positively then move on to the next thread.

Peace

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Clearly, you didn’t check with any one of the dozen AI checkers online. Clearly, you are not able to articulate what characteristics and statements I made possess indications of AI. And most clearly, the biggest faux pas of them all, you really don’t speak for everyone here nor did you consult them to ask their believes. It would have been better to go after my grammar.

I really don’t give a hoot that you offered no real analysis to the video. I expect that You were just sharing a video sans any personal opinions.

But grunting a reply to my discussion of the issues in the video, it was incoherent and rude, rather than just moving on and expecting no retort???

The cartoon ai generated graphic. The words mine. That’s how memes work.

Asking me to shed light on a subject that I already wrote 1200 words (Yeah, Walls of text spaced every two sentences for ease of reading) doesn’t constitute an honest interaction.

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I like this forum. I like the work of Dr. Farrell and have been listening and reading for years. I don’t care if someone is right or wrong on any subject. If they put out thoughtful idea’s.

You might enjoy reading the guidelines of how discussions in a humanities course online proceed and the rules everyone agrees to. These kind of problems don’t exist when everyone follows the same rules. An anti-anarchy model. Grunts wouldn’t be tolerated. But I get it. It’s informal conversation which requires no adhering to basic principles of engagement. In absence of moderation of those type of replies, I believe we are free to self moderate so the other guy gets it. Get it??

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We shouldn’t be having this conversation with all the serious shasta going on in the world.

Shhh :shushing_face:

You are a troublemaker, and a most disagreeable fellow so stop embarrassing yourself and move off my thread.

If you continue to dusrupt the conversation I shall raise a complaint with the website moderator.

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Moderator!!!

lol

I did it for you.

You come off as low iq. Most of your contributions.

I have better things to do than interact with someone who farts and thinks it’s a reply

In the old days, in gym class, the teacher would give the students boxing gloves to work it out

I suscept that you wouldn’t fair well in a debate with any intelligent opponent

You have a lazy mind You’re the guy that needs to read the humanities texts that have been posted in recent days.

If you would like me to draft the letter for you. Please let me know

Last time someone did this, the moderator banned the guy complaining after i demonstrated to the moderator that the individual was low iq without ethics from their own posts. Shhhs don’t work well with the wrong person.

Hope the moderator sides with you

Your thread ends where the next guy gives their opinions. You have no ownership rights in someone else’s digital turf.

Shhh :shushing_face:

You are the right person trust me :sunglasses:

I trust two illegal Hondurians and three Arabs with a suitcase before I trust your analysis.

Your commentary should be lifted and put in a sociology book for future generations to study.

Threatening to get me kicked off a blog in public was an idiot move. Because if you loose the gambit, you have to deal with me and you’re not qualified.

Go ahead, make my day. I have nothing to loose. You do.

Cheer up my cute little fragile flower, we could be at war tomorrow.

Love you :heart:

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the most primitive golems are made out of clay, and formed to likeliness by hand. one has to use ceremonial magic (programming software) to create them. they speak to much.
then comes the stone golems, those are bit more edgy. has to have tools. you really do not want to mess with those.
you can have them from iron too, and there are the flesh-ones, which are really funny, the Frankenstein types, but work very differently.
the most sophisticated ones are made out of titanium, and are fusion-powered, comes with AI and remote control too… you surely know these. act accordingly. other-wise, without this knowledge, you may get turkey-d. for Christmas, obviously.

p.s.: are we living in sci-fi world already, or I missed a station?