@Morrisville
Nothing to be called out when not able to engage due to not have sifted thru all the source material, which is massive by the way. That is why very few do but take “critique” exerpts cobbled together by others, that is calling out nothing but regurgitating someone else opinion! Then hiding behind “religeous intolerance” isn’t going to cut it.
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May I suggest Joseph Atwill’s book, “Caesar’s Messiah”? We need to take into consideration the true history of what was happening during the times these writings were being written & exactly who decided which writings were “o.k.” for us to read. At age 79 I am just trying to bring together the “dots” of a lifetime to get answers to questions I never asked before! One conclusion I came to was the Belief System I had been raised in was, indeed, “Pauline Christianity”…not really trying to prove any point, just try to keep learning. 
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I watched the ‘hijacker’ piece. What occurred to me is that yes, Paul probably hijacked Christianity. But where is the ‘other’ version today? Gone as far as I can see. Is there any legacy from a Christianity taught by the ‘real’ apostles? Where are the Christian Jewish churches? I am not judging whether Paul’s actions were good or bad, I’m just observing. Most of the arguments of Pauline Christianity seem to me to be marketing ploys to sell to unsophisticated minds. So it seems to me that in a way Paul ‘saved’ Christianity from fizzling out into nothing as his version is the only thing that has survived.
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The only thing hijacked was the human mind.
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Hear, hear. The Jordan Peterson school of “Who? Me? Never!” barely even works for Peterson, let alone some half-baked random who hasn’t cultivated the same (essential) home-turf immunity from scrutiny. This is to philosophy (or religion, or apologetics, or whatever it was he was trying) what an artist friend of mine refers to as ‘dipsh*ts with paintbrushes’ trying to make art. It makes me feel queasy.
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This thread inspired us to look for your 7-part webinar on the history of Islam, a topic about which we know very little. We’re viewing it, and it reinforces how much we don’t know about very many things in this world. Thank you for putting that together.
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I, too, have questions, Morrisville, about many things in life, including Paul’s influence on Christianity. I wish there were more surviving records by, and about, the earliest Christians, those closest to Jesus, his family and his disciples, the ones directly preceding and following his time. That makes it so very challenging, plus the time lapse between then and now, in finding insights to a few particular questions that interest me.
What is it that you found most stood out for you in Atwill’s book? Does it have a good bibliography, in your estimation?
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BINGO! Bill … beginning with the process of Abduction - a term coined by C.S. Peirce to define a kind of non-deductive inference different from the known inductive types. Abduction is that process from which our initial guesses (which he pointed out that are for no apparent reason usually more often correct than not) concerning hypotheses are made. Control the abductive process and the rest will follow. Hmmmm, given that we appear to be witnessing an usual amount of aberrant behavior it may be that the corruption of the abductive process is already more widely spread than we imagine … and what better way to spread such a contagion than through our so called “culture”.
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… another book along the lines of this thread is Hyam Maccoby’s (1924-2004) The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity. If one chooses to read this book it must be read with MANY caveats.
Opinion of Maccoby was quite divided in his lifetime and remains so. And have no doubt that this work is a polemic and he is most definitely a polemicist. He has also been ascribed as being “idiosyncratic", and “tendentious”. His communication style is, shall we say, “combative”. Many who reviewed this work (including a number of Jewish reviewers) also claimed that the view of Christian history and doctrine in this book were at best “misrepresentations”.
If one wishes milder material on this subject see the work of Geza Vermes, Samuel Sandmel and Joseph Klausner.
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Hi Scarmoge. Is gnosticism/nominalism the prime corrupter of the abduction process in your opinion?
… in the way in which you pose the question I would answer Yes. Are there other contributors to this corruption? I would also answer Yes.
Nominalism certainly plays a major role in that it is a denial of Realism (that there is a World that is what it is regardless of any whim, wish, will, or desire on my part or that of any individual). Nominalism at its start has given up on the hope of knowledge acquisition. Having no hope of acquiring knowledge is a rough presupposition to begin with in whatever passes for Nominalist “inquiry”.
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… see my response below your question. For some reason it did not link as a reply to your question. Cheers.
Fides et ratio always fides et ratio. Like wings of dove flying over our minds. No dove can fly on one wing ever.
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What other contributors would you suggest to the corruption of the abductive process?
… at this time due to ongoing research concerns to make any comments regarding specific speculations about those “other contributors” would be to make comments on proprietary information. But I can and will say that there are other contributors of a specific nature. The inquiry at this time involves determining specifically the nature of those contributors, can one show experimentally that they do in fact contribute to abductive corruption ,and to what extent those corruptive contributions can be shown and quantified.
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Thanks Scarmoge. I look forward to reading your research one day.
… me too! … from your lips to God’s ears. 
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Yup. Maccoby’s book is essential. If nothing else it’s the best survey of the “Paul” questions…
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Well, James definitely had a problem with Paul. They had a bit of a schism all their own from the get-go, didn’t they? lol --I might hold off on Maccoby until after Advent, like a day after Epiphany, but that’s just me, Joseph. Prayers for you and on the research, as ever – Alicia
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