Having spent a lifetime within “Pauline Christianity” & having seen the results of it within my own life & in the life of others I began to question where this Belief System had come from. We have no “original” writings from right after Jesus’ life; we have only what was approved by the Roman Gov’t. I am not “attacking” anyone else’s Belief System here…we can each believe whatever we choose to believe. I am only a 79 year old Grandma seeking answers for what she has seen in her own lifetime. My Father was a Baptist Minister, so it’s not like I don’t know what I’m talking about here! I’m thankful there is a platform where we can openly discuss such matters.
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Thanks! Merry Christmas to you and yours!
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Since you liked the posting of this article in another thread on this site, did you listen? Going to the original source of the Old Testament he has quite a revaluation.
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Gnostic gospels are essential to understand the story of Jesus. Especially the gospel of Thomas and Mary Magdalene.
There’s a reason that the catholic church kept these gospels out of the canon
Also it’s interesting to know, that in the New testament Luke actually didn’t even meet Jesus Christ. He was greek and he was a doctor. And he took most of his writings from Paul who dictated to Luke what should be written. Paul tried to embarras Simon Peter who was Jesus’s true vicegerent and Simon Peter had the stance that Paul and Luke aren’t even worthy enough to eat food together.
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Eeeerhm ;I don’t think you thought this all the way through; there’s not many stories in the history of this world,having been under more scrutiny than the Bible.
And then, somewhere along the way, there’s a certain amount of faith coming into the picture.
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@Morrisville
Life is strange to say the least. For me it was the opposite. I was a heathen child stuck in Catholic schools in a “then” heavy catholic country. Don’t tell me about “love thy neighbor” by those bible thumpers, it doesn’t exist. I don’t even want to go there in what they put me thru, the hippocrites. In my young adulthood I was all into Gnosticism so why did I ultimately weaver?
In the end, I find personally, churchianity or critique there on coming from whatever side explains not very much. That doesn’t mean all should be tossed aside. In the very “materialistic” predicament humanity is in when it comes to these subjects “belief” comes into play whether we like it or not.
Between 1999 and about 2010 there was a relative popular writer called D.M. Murdock, an aquintance of Joseph Atwill, the Caesar’s Messiah guy. She wrote a book under a pseudonyme Acharya S, The Christ Conspiracy, The Greatest Story Ever Sold published in 1999 thru Adventures Unlimited. The book is primarely about personafications of the ubiquitous solar myths. The book came up in one of Joseph’s chats years ago!
I can’t reproduce verbatim what Joseph ansewered, but the template that we can observe in those ubiquitous myths was confirmation there was something to them, not a debunking. I never forgot that.
So yes, in the end if “Jesus walked the earth” is a belief but if you string along Rupert Sheldrake’s knowledge with today’s plasma knowledge and all the myths from all corners on the earth, I find it less in the realm of impossibilities.
I still don’t belong to a church, I am not even baptized, but for me Christ is real and well within the realm of possibilities in visiting earth in the physical. In the end all that bickering over texts needs to be placed in context of your own reality made up from your own experience and knowledge and therefore is and stays highly personal. In the end, Christ and His teachings became very important to me.
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I agree there must have been a Jesus person, but I doubt it is the one the Roman Church gave us. I find it interesting that in “Compendium of The Emerald Tablets”, put out by Billy Carson, we find Toth saying many of the exact same “sayings” as we have the Biblical Jesus saying!! 
I wonder if that means that Jesus & Thoth were the same person or if whoever wrote the Gospels mined the Thoth material?! So many questions… I just knew that what I had observed within the Pauline Christianity did not jive with what it was purported to be able to do. I’m just a Grandma asking questions after sorting through all the “stuff”!! 
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Hebrew Scholar, Mauro Biglino, spent a lifetime translating the Old Testament books which were used for the Vatican. He seems to do a fair evaluation of how certain words should be translated. The majority of Normies have no clue about the original languages & we have just accepted many translations, assuming they were correct.
Anglican Priest, Paul A. Wallis has also reconsidered things he taught for over 30 years in his church. We each are on our own Personal Journey & I do not criticize anyone else’s Journey. Each of us is at a different point in our Journey & hopefully, we continue to learn & grow in our understanding! Blessings on you!!
Sorry, can’t help there. Not on the bandwagon of Mauro Biglino, and certainly not of Anglican Priest, Paul A. Wallis.
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… another title or two, or three, or more along these lines. James the Brother of Jesus and the Dead Sea Scrolls: The Historical James, Paul the Enemy, and Jesus’ Brothers as Apostles (2 vols.) by Robert Eisenman (2012) and James the Brother of Jesus: The Key to Unlocking the Secrets of Early Christianity and the Dead Sea Scrolls (1998).
Also of possible interest … Morton Smith - Jesus the Magician and The Secret Gospel of Mark. … and … Elaine Pagels - The Gnostic Gospels
… remember, as with all books, they are written, read, and critiqued by human beings … eminently fallible
I include here a review by Robert M. Price. Caution! - Price, like Maccoby, is a quite controversial figure. Although a bomb thrower of sorts Price, in most cases, makes for interesting reading.
https://web.archive.org/web/20030821154123/http://www.depts.drew.edu/jhc/RPeisenman.html
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Exactly, there are parallels in parables of Jesus Christ and Thoth-Hermes Trismegistus.
Long after Thoth, this message was shared again with a new audience:
“Who has ears to hear, let them hear.” And the disciples came, and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” He answered and said to them, “Because it is given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.” (Matthew 13:9-11)
You have even countless parallels in sayings of Jesus and eastern religions:
“The Kingdom of God is within you and all around you, yet you do not see it.” ~The Gospel of Thomas; parallels: Luke, Mary, Dialogue of the Savior
“Those who seek to find the One without ceasing, will find the Lord dwelling in their own hearts.” ~The Bhagavad Gita
“The Kingdom is not coming in any way that you can observe. The Kingdom of God is already here—within you.” ~The Gospel According to Luke; parallels: Thomas, Mary
“Those who find the Way are those who have love and forgiveness in their hearts.” ~The Bhagavad Gita
Judas asked Jesus, “How do we find the Way?” Jesus answered, “By developing love and compassion.” ~Dialogue of the Savior
“Listen to the Way which is called the eternal.” ~The Upanishads
“Ask, and it will be given you. Seek, and you will find. Knock, and the door will be opened to you.” ~The Gospel According to Matthew; parallels: Luke, Thomas
“Why should there be a reservoir when there is a flood everywhere?” ~The Upanishads
“The Way holds all things within Itself. Like the vastness of the universe, it lacks nothing, and nothing needs to be added to it.” ~The Third Chinese Patriarch of Zen
“The Way is empty, the Way is full. There is no way to describe what it is. Find it within yourselves.” ~The Tao Te Ching
“Before you set foot on the path, master yourself.” ~The Dhammapada
“The perfect man is one whose sins are forgiven. He becomes one with the Way.” ~The Tao Te Ching
“No one can understand the Way unless they have pure hearts.” ~The Dhammapada
“In bygone days men of wisdom honored the Way by declaring that it could be found by all who seek it.” ~The Tao Te Ching
“Listen carefully and faithfully to the Way—for it is mighty.” ~The Sutra of Forty-two Sections
“The Way is complete in itself. All blessings come from it, and it holds nothing back from anyone.” ~The Tao Te Ching
“The Way you have found is not known even to the angels. It proceeds from the One. Follow it.” ~Dialogue of the Savior
“There are two paths that are eternal: the path of light and the path of darkness. One path leads to liberation, the other leads to sorrow.” ~The Bhagavad Gita
“Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.” ~The Gospel According to Matthew; parallel: Luke
“The light that resides in the sun shines light on all beings. It enters the Earth as my Being, for I nourish all things.” ~The Bhagavad Gita
“When I came among humanity I opened the door to the Way. I showed you the path that you must follow. You will find it within yourselves.” ~Dialogue of the Savior
“I have revealed to you the most secret doctrine…those who are able to see it have seen the Light.” ~The Bhagavad Gita
“Words cannot describe what the Way is, but do not lose sight of it, for then it might be lost forever.” ~The Buddha
“The Way is mighty, yet people prefer smaller paths.” ~The Tao Te Ching
“Once you have crossed the river, leave the raft behind. This is the Way I have taught you.” ~The Majjhima Nikaya Sutra
“I seek to understand and walk the Way, so that I do not lose sight of it. The Way is not complex, nor is it hidden from anyone. People just choose to ignore it.” ~The Tao Te Ching
“Those with a pure heart, and who seek the Way without ceasing, will find it. It is like cleaning glass until the dust is removed.” ~The Dhammapada
“The secret of the Way waits for those who have overcome desire.” ~The Tao Te Ching
“Open the door to the Way that is within you, so that you may be a guide to those who wish to follow you. Encourage all those who are ready to follow the Way and receive its blessings.” ~The Second Apocalypse of James
“I am the Way for the traveler. I am the Master who watches in silence. I am your friend and your shelter. I am the beginning and the end of all things. I am the seed of the Universe. I am the supreme treasure.” ~The Bhagavad Gita
“I am a beacon of light to those who see Me. I am a mirror to those who look for Me. I am a door to those who knock on Me. I am a Way for you, the traveler.” ~The Hymn of Jesus from The Acts of John
“When the mind becomes still, when thinking ceases, this is the beginning of the supreme path.” ~The Katha Upanishad
“The Kingdom is within you, and one who knows himself will find it.” ~Papyrus Oxyrhynchus; parallels: Thomas, Luke, Mary, Dialogue of the Savior
“God allowed man to look outward, but in seeing the outer, the inner is ignored. Those who see the eternal, turn their gaze within.” ~The Katha Upanishad
“Seeking within, you will find stillness. Here there is no more fear or attachment—only joy.” ~The Dhammapada
“When the wise man hears of the Way, he tries hard to follow it. When the average person hears of the Way, he tries to keep it, but eventually loses it. When those who are ignorant hear of the Way, they just laugh. If people didn’t laugh at it, it wouldn’t be the Way.” ~The Tao Te Ching
“Those are fortunate who have eyes to see the great Way. They know that there is no other path to purifying the intellect. Seek this Way.” ~The Dhammapada
“Those who say they have found the Way, have not. That which is eternal, cannot be spoken of. It lies within.” ~The Tao Te Ching
“It is good to practice the Way, and to seek truth. Being in harmony with the Way is even better.” ~The Kevaddha Sutra
“He who knows the Way does not let it show. Neither does he seek to be rewarded by anyone. Those who know the Way find their reward within themselves.” ~The Tao Te Ching
“Many are the paths of men, though all those paths end in Me for those who love Me.” ~The Bhagavad Gita
“Follow Me and leave the dead to bury the dead.” ~The Gospel According to Matthew; parallel: Luke
“Follow the way of righteousness, for it leads to the highest goal.” ~The Bhagavad Gita
“True humanity is within you. Seek and you will find it.” ~The Gospel of Mary [Magdelene]; parallels: Thomas, Matthew, Luke
“Let those who are wise seek the Way. Those who find it will not return.” ~The Bhagavad Gita
“Hurry, now, to follow the Way, for it is plain to seek but hard to walk upon.” ~The Epistula Apostolorum
“The Way of the transcendent is difficult for mortals to attain.” ~The Bhagavad Gita
“It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of heaven.” ~The Gospel According to Matthew; parallel: Luke
“Those who follow the Way are like dry grass. They need to be protected from the flames of desire.” ~The Sutra of Forty-two Sections
“To have knowledge of the Way is good. Conforming to the Way is best.” ~The Tao Te Ching
“To follow the Way is goodness. To conform to the Way is greatness.” ~The Sutra of Forty-two Sections
“If you seek the Way through learning, you will not understand it. If you seek the Way with a humble heart, then you will find it.” ~The Tao Te Ching
"
To live according to the Way is not easy or hard. But it is impossible for those who are fearful and lack commitment." ~The Third Chinese Patriarch of Zen
“The Way rewards those who embrace it. Misfortune waits for those who abandon it.” ~The Tao Te Ching
“It is hard for those with power and wealth to follow the Way.” ~The Kavaddha Sutra
“Act in harmony with the Way, and you will become the Way. Nurture the Way within yourself, and you will live a virtuous life.” ~The Tao Te Ching
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Thanks for the book suggestions!
(And also to everyone else on this thread who’s weighing in - I find this topic interesting, and appreciate everyone’s thoughts – I still haven’t made up my own mind, and perhaps never will, and thus am open to different points of view).
I’m not overly worried about people recommending polemic books, as encountering that in books is a given when examining touchy subjects. (Like examining messy data, a scientist will enounter all kinds of things along that journey, including outliers that lead into fascinating areas). Sometimes the polemicists will have insights about a certain detail that someone else may not have considered in his own research, thus it’s good to read from different angles and perspectives.
I found Keith Akers’ books interesting: “The Lost Religion of Jesus” and “Disciples”, which explored a topic area that interests me: how did animal sacrifice and slavery arise, and why do we eat animals, and what do different religions have to do with that. He also examined the letters of Paul in that particular light. One could regard Akers’ books as being tendencious as far as that exploration goes, but he didn’t condemn Paul’s text – merely considered what his opponents were saying about Paul’s ideas as recounted in Paul’s letters, and then giving some thoughts about that, which I found interesting.
I’ve been taking notes about the book leads on this thread and will have a look for them in the used book store.
One of the most interesting and useful threads on the forum, this is, warts and all.
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Woo-Hoo!!! What a wealth of information!! 
Thankyou, celstialpassenger!!! It is clear you have been studying a myriad of Sources!! What a pleasure to read through all these!! In my opinion, we in the West have been denied much in the way of our education! Time for “Catch Up”!!
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“Before Abraham was, I am.” In other words, the person speaking it is pointing to himself. Given that the Hebrew name of God is YHWH (I am), the emphatic usage here (particularly in the context) is a clear indication or claim.
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In the Hebrew Bible it says that when God was speaking to Moses from the burning bush He said ’ehye ’ăšer ’ehye which means I am that I am, it is a very confounding response over which people have contemplated over for centuries
Seems human history is a mishmash of ideas and tales passed down through the millennia…pick and choose what you like or strikes your fancy. Propagate as needed to calm your anxiety and search for the “truth”.
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… but a much better place to look would be in DARPAs basements. 
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The text begins with:
These are the secret words which the living Jesus spoke, and Didymus Judas Thomas wrote them down.
(3) Jesus said, “If those who lead you say to you, ‘See, the kingdom is in the sky,’ then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, ‘It is in the sea,’ then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty.” - from The Gospel of Thomas, from texts collectively known as The Nag Hammadi Library.
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It is possible, as I’ve pointed out in my books, that Eyah asher Eyah is a pun on Ea, one of the names for Enki, hence it would read “I am Ea/Enki”…
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In keeping with the original title of this thread. Who was Paul and what did he represent to 99.9% of the world, which is non-Jewish, on a human basis? Knowing how much everyone loves it when I post, I’m sure you’ll deal with my opinion in your own way.
In essence, Paul saved and enriched millions of lives for the 2,000 years that followed him, while the world waged war, using their own agendas, many in the name of god. (Lower case for a reason.) Paul didn’t ‘hijack’ anything. The notion of it shows a misunderstand of the person and a sensationalizing in order to sell a narrative.
Using biblical and extra-biblical sources, remembering that this is on a human basis, take an honest look at the man who was Paul. He was a Pharisee, which alludes to him being judgmental, overbearing and murderous. By Pauls’ own admission, he was mean. Paul was a sort of bounty hunter; if not paid according to the number of individuals he killed, he was certainly supported by Jewish leadership. As a Pharisee, Paul was literally steeped like a tea bag in Babylonian beliefs and traditions, which were anything but godly. It’s hard to imagine the mental and emotional challenges that beset him trying to sort out his thoughts. These sorts of beliefs ran through virtually all the belief systems of Greece, Rome and others; they all contained aspects of it. It is highly likely that Paul was married with children, as were all Pharisees. A curious question is if Paul left his family or they left him. According to laws of that time, Pauls family would have had every right to leave him, if he pursued another belief (esp. this one). Either way, the bridges were well burned. Paul was as close to perfect a candidate as it gets to send to the gentiles.
From his ‘experience’ on the road to Damascus to his execution in Rome, I would suggest what’s happened to the historical figure of Paul is very similar to what happened to Mary, the mother of Jesus, neither of which did the hijacking. Both Mary and Paul seem to be elevated to levels by many Christians in ways in which other Christians don’t think is necessary, although in different ways. I cannot comment on the necessity of it but will say that in the case of Mary, she is a deity to some and in the closet to others. Is one side giving her too much credit while the other does not provide her enough? I think we might be looking at the same sort of phenomenon with Paul and this has been discussed in a few of the writings named above but with a twist. When you ask many Protestants, esp. Evangelical Christians about the biblical figure they most aspire to emulate, hands down, the answer is Paul. They rarely say Jesus and Mary’s in the dark closet and can’t find the doorknob into Protestantism. Why? Both Jesus and Mary are divine and Paul is just a man. About half of The New Testament is written by Paul, who is fundamentally on a fully human level. It’s more likely that Christians have hijacked Paul, not the other way around. Paul gives the ordinary Christian hope that they can be obedient unto death, that it is possible, with no deification attached to them.
This leaves only 2 possibilities for Pauls outlook in life. He was either insane, or, he fully believed in what happened to him and was spreading the message as instructed. Maybe both are crazy by the worlds standards. If he was insane, fine but no doubt he believed in his insanity, 100%. As the top people in alphabet agencies, business psychologists, psychiatrists, all the kings horses and all the kings men say: NOBODY would go through the hardships and face the death that Paul did for what he KNOWS is a lie. It just doesn’t happen. It doesn’t. Paul is not the hijacker.
Take it for what you will.
2 Corinthians 11: 24-31
24Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.
29Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?
30If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities.
…And a whole lot more…
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