eTOS whats the point of having debate!?

[Pelister]

for any lost coz late, around the acronym eTOS, it stands for electronicTrueOpenSociety meaning direct democracy approach [1-14][1][1] through debate tool like eforums, that once would be used on societal level, at least like mandatory e’tool for thematic 24/7 open ngo debate, if not else will bring fast denoising defogging deicing of any social or political hype, aside delicious public narrative for all, even more, if to the idea is approached with some clever concepts like 3in1 or similar type of gradation coz greater clarity, eg. forum blogging in such shear debate environment its not useful, so whatever other good eforum practice should be standardized, eg by footnotes shared blog posts from elsewhere, on by personal blog option on the same forum profile etc. alike combination on the same need for deeper elaboration of own position in given debate, i.e. how mids eg. 100 experts will flow smooth ping pong if all start to stretch some debate wide and long in given thread, maybe having option to expand the post in new personal side thread as adjunct to the OP thread, and like that not to choke the main flow with various digressions or own heavy math!?, practically even small rant can bring someone to question his participation somewhere, and that hm its 50/50 useful on behalf of all, thus if there is no moderation, or moderators fell asleep, such bumps can produce short circuits if not else, actually the motivation for this thread was one such that provoked separate thread about, from where are taken the next two quotes, tho coz the eTOS footnotes in context of this thread, ordered upside down …

if You are somehow bored while reading long text, coz whatever reason, but also for smoother ride, You can put some ytp as background [2][3]

@Pelister

mine approach if You noticed dont depend so much on the debate, coz its eforum blogging, kind of exploring given topic myself while waiting others to join, still if dont catch up quickly probably looks like interruption whatever drop by whoever, so guess uninviting for the majority to join, and as I said dont mind, but getting rant, till now that didnt popup anyhow here on GDS, so I’ve made this thread so would ask Please Do Let Me Know If I Am anyhow Burden, I’ll leave, there are other places to flow …

• now, all that about the eforum members psychology, or debate perception, its indeed interesting logic, yep moderation is always pitai’who’let’d’dogs’out, but mods are paid, hm, maybe will produce safe from harm environment for good!?, also interesting and useful logic for future tweaking of whatever any eventual societal eTOS hype, electronicTrueOpenSociety based on eforums as e’tool for 24/7 institutional public debate … and think, exactly then Your analysis and alike, will find own way in and around whatever need for structural debate cohesion, coz for sure in such environment will burst extra debate pool, where not just some, but all will jump around like electrified sofa springs!, what could go even on institutional level [1[/u]-3][3] but more in totality useful for the community on ngo level …

eh, then indeed, it would be useful regular tweaking of the interaction psychology, and how the same would be brought to more clean and useful signal as output, than whatever agitprop derailing [2][2] altho what as input eg. it could be loosened coz lesser stiffness and joyful ride, as I claim eg. on ngo level … and while party and academia eforums cant afford such flow, still ngo eforums can [3] even till level of wow look they can creatively swear all around, eg. using idiomatic urban dictionary kicks, for what tho think there should be mandatory architecture with 3in1 parallel eforums [3] as 1st one for expert debate, then 2nd central for ngo members, and 3rd for all population, with kind of different moderation for every parallel e’f even categories moderation, i.e. it would be left to masses to have thematic place as steam valve where “some” more loosen language will be allowed tho without personal rants, what eventually will be good pressure box even for experts if we assume there on that 3rd for all parallel thematic eforum in the very same ngo nicknames or avatars would be random so noone could boost whatever personal animosity, one could be noticed maybe by the style, but real or a.i. copycats can smooth out such lets say ripper cocitizen, eventually there will many use a.i. chat bots, especially if its not mandatory citizens to have account to participate, yet captcha alike system to prove the written its their knowhow can cushion whatever intentional flood of manipulative content, here the idea with this kind of parallel public eforum would be exactly loosening till point of hood street talk, just like nowadays on soc. nets which actually are made for that … yet thematic eforums, even more ngo one, means to have lasting concentrate, of useful info in some topic, or topics in subforum, on top neatly arranged by date and similarity, where as 3in1 one system would touch upon the high end on the experts flow, so as the low end of the debate on the parallel public eforum, and like that having middle ground like the central ngo eforum that will serve like ironing board … so, all even those citizens that dont want to join the ngo, would have space to interact, and reexpert the experts if not else!, what would bring healthy debate atmosphere, as regulated and usefully compact 24/7 open public debate …

• … then also, with such central e’f every ngo will eventually reach extra volunteer base, coz far more people are willing to participate if all things are public, thus evaded the risk from infiltration and hijack of the ngo, and as result day after whatever shame or guilt projected to those that became members!, as norm even more needed for party eforums, so whatever party would bring as much as possible clarity without shame if some among them became corrupted!, unlike nowadays when the excess will be removed but we all need to believe with him went away corruption out of the window as well!

finally experts will never accept to come and debate there, in such ngo, if this kind of gradation dont exist, simply everyone that wants to reach the expert board, would need to prove that are knowledgeable in the field, so at least would not waste the time of those willing to help their communities, where as experts on the go would bring fast and sharp analysis ideas or concepts, even more useful coz like this are welcomed experts that have fly away somewhere, but are still willing to participate in the community … as if this eTool like eForum its built exactly for that, yet globalists afraid masses to speak their mind, throw all in soc.networks and there slept them “forum” groups, while in essence made elint tool for global fakebook surveillance manipulation and brainwash, yeah in voyaeristic place which prime role even since its inception was exactly that dating match!

• practically eTOS by itself sounds promising, but once we put in the math risks of wrong crowd management, or hacker attacks, and psyop infiltration, then suddenly the feat becomes more than we’ve expected, so indeed need to be rolled societal hype about, instead like now to be left on spontaneous willingness of some ngo party or faculty to engage such etool coz own ideological or structural strengthening, simply its task that asks for various technical but also creative tweaks so would be reached massive usefulness from such wide open and continual public debate, as g.a.i. claims that in no time such society will experience growth even till 400% ha didnt waste time to ask how it came to such percentage, coz for me even 50 percent effectiveness is wow, tho what matters its not whether some society through eTOS will reach greater progress, but would it secure greater compactness, so in hard times would be willing to help not just itself but others too …

@reddclay

It’s not you. it’s the nature of the beast…message boards and communities. I’ve addressed this in the past. Not a comfortable topic. Because it gets away from what people are interested in…What’s happening out there and focuses on us.

So what is the nature of the beast? I’ve done research on the psychology of message boards. Surprise.

Message boards operate on long-standing observation is the 90-9-1 rule (or close variants): roughly 90% of users primarily lurk (read without posting), ~9% contribute occasionally, and ~1% create most of the content. This holds across many platforms and has been confirmed in studies of online communities.

Here is a quote from one study

sciencedirect.com

In one analysis of association online communities (covering ~238,000 discussion threads from 250+ organizations):

• 61% of threads received zero group replies.
• Among the 39% that did get replies, the average was about 4.4 responses.
• Overall average replies per thread was under 2 (pulled down heavily by the silent majority of posts).

Similar “lone posts” or “no-response threads” are common.

Lurking is the default for many reasons Lurkers’ satisfaction was often lower than posters’, but most were not purely selfish. People who view discussions as toxic, disrespectful, polarized, or unconstructive are more likely to stay silent

Silent means if they like what you say publicly, they will be seen.

Timing is important. People are essentially posting over each other. The missing scientists, people just kept creating new forums every time a new news item came out, basically sending all the old ones to the grave yard. This ensures that their post will be seen rather than posting under another 50 posts.

Then there is clout chasing. Happens regularly. This is not a commentary on Mr. Farrell who I assume we are all fans of his work. It’s human nature. It is what it is. Clout chasing

It describes people who mainly (or only) engage—reply, comment, influencers, celebrities, high-follower accounts, or people with status/prestige, while ignoring ordinary users’ posts. The goal is usually to gain visibility, association, attention, or a status boost by attaching themselves to someone more prominent. In the old days, we call this brown nosers.

Respect and courtesy. yes. Brown nosing. Nobody likes it and it depends on who the recipient. I know when it was done to me in the corporate world where I had some status, I abhorred it. People preferentially interact with high-status figures. In this community, Mr. Farrell is the celebrity.

There is tons of public information on the subject to explore if you desire. It’s a good glimpse of human nature.

I’m sure I’ve mentioned the chronic lack of people answering questions or follow ups and people just disappearing when their thesis is questioned. People want to be heard.

Now, if you can start a good fight. Punch someone in the nose verbally. You will receive more attention. That’s where the human condition to rubberneck gets invoked.

It’s actually a fun subject. You learn not to read what people are saying, but read what’s behind what they are saying. Message boards are great for honing these skills.

Here’s a fun one. A story. You’ll note people usually don’t talk from their own experience and story time in our modern online culture has nearly died.

There is a pretty famous author. Very famous in some circles. He is the undisputed expert in a field and in multiple area’s which a thousand authors couldn’t come up to his level. Most humans walking the earth don’t have it like that. And he published more than a 100 books and we ain’t talking crap either. He didn’t just flood the market with crap. There are multiple masterpieces. I’d go so far to say that in 100 years, he might be considered a legend. Even a mythical human. Yet, he is a shy, quiet guy. Humble and unassuming.

Well once upon a time, there was a message board that was dedicated to his works. Let’s talk about his books, it’s content. Let’s share our own experiences, and thoughts on any number of subjects.

The author was on the message board in disguise. Just another one of the community members. Joe Anonymous. And from time to time he would chime in on a discussion.

At some point, a group of people didn’t like his responses. Thought they were inaccurate and they let him know. They ripped him apart. The very guy they all were dedicated to read, study and actually the level of reference for him might be equal to what a saint gets. He said he got his arse off the forum and lucky to be in one piece.

Maybe not for you, or anybody else, this story stayed with me for many years. The foremost expert in the world, with prolific output, an extremely likeable person and people making rhetorical comments and nasty comments about the person that they admired more than anyone.

I call this the human condition.

Sure, we might one day solve the mystery of the missing scientists. Or get some insight on what’s next stage chaos in the day to day life of the empire, but you and I ain’t gonna solve this problem. And most moderators of their own message boards aren’t going to solve the human condition.

It is what it is. It’s where we are as a culture in terms of communication. The great experiment of community and global connection thru the eithers ain’t what they said it would be.

I’ve actually thought of ways to solve this since I’ve been a moderator on two message boards. Both more active than this community. It’s a tough cookie to crack although there are cookie cutter solutions that some have used. You can’t force people to do anything. They have to be coaxed.

I would have thought that the members would post in the members area since it’s reserved for members. I was wrong. I tried. No go. I looked up that psychology too. Public area is more visible and thus more attention.

Someone, a very astute man once asked a group of people. Why do you post? Nobody could answer it and few will ever take the time to do the self assessment.

Of course, I thought about this for a long time and my answer. Show and tell might be the oldest game known to man. You know sitting around a campfire telling stories. It’s natural to want to outflow and want to be validated for your thoughts. But the story teller is of no use if there aren’t listeners. In real life, you can look at a person and know if they are listening or out for lunch. Online, you can’t tell unless people make a concerted effort. And that’s not likely to happen. Just ask them. They will tell you.

People have a thousand emails. 1500 notifications from youtube and social media. The kids are crying. No milk in the fridge and somebody has to paint the garage thus you can’t respond to everyone.

Thus the only thing I have left to share is you have to decide what you want out of your sharing and why you do it. It’s a good question to contemplate. And if you think you have something really important to share and it’s unique, you should find a way to share it. the 24/7 news cycles is busier than ever and people’s attentions will move one thing to another thing in a nano second and rarely take the time to focus on an area of interest that has nothing to do with what the crowd is talking about.

[Pelister]

now regards the need of debate, we can say the same in case of societies, comes from the logic about Man existing like zoon’politikon … altho not as humanists choked by darwinian reductionism interpret it i.e. animal’man [1][1] but as Man bound to metaphysics, where zoo is projecting life instead beastly animal, just like zography dont means animal’painting but life’graphics [2] tho coz for atheists metaphysics is obsolete thus interpret Aristotle in quite narrowly stupid manner [3][3] when suddenly, if so, its useless to have direct democracy, coz like that if anyhow are challenged the elites could emerge chaos, solely they are the’philosopher’kings in their republic, yeah coz only by such elitism can be reached d’plutocratic’tyranny which we experience nowadays, on top waiting to evolve as such in ultimate by technocratic&transhumanist means an total open tyranny of scientific dictatorship > which’ rests on given neopagan inertia >> which’ brought such n’w’o evolution >>> which’ seeks to suspend our free will coz rests on given atlantean determinism [4][5] yeah across both side of the north part of the atlantic ocean, democracy as always was just bait for stirring revolution, while in essence its just inter’factional european’black’nobility quarrel [6][6-9][6]

anyway, if we tend to enact true direct participatory democracy #, in sense as Soulful Mankind that needs to reach wider clarity and some if not total golden mean [7] and or realism as centrism in politics [7] # then we need to push for eTOS in such way so all intellectual capacity of some society would be welcomed to help somehow the system, if not else being active check&balance to its administration [8][8] what probably its kind enough explained in this last 8th footnote, tho far from indepth academic measurement so would be taken as final idea, for what foremost we would need first fast shear debate locally if we want such eTOS momentum to be pushed by all parties day after eventual emergence, instead to be suspended or forgotten by the next governmental rotation that didnt brought it as own project, simply it needs to be joint effort instead partisan voting bait, in which style end up all huge societal changes, coz there are many that would seek such emergence to evaporate as soon as possible, so without wide political support, at best such eTOS stunt would end up in partially driven momentum by one side of the local political spectrum, altho if there is will even as such would bring space for whatever thematic public debate, yep useful even then, but far from the potential of clash of pro and counter opinions …

here need to accent try for a moment dont see me as some sorosoid, I am disgusted by such, eg. regularly pointing to “deir” colored coups and agitprop skims [9-7][9-2]~[9][9] so by no means eTOS is some poop of his’open’society!, it has E and T in front of it, probably its enough so would point difference, while in same would suggest how through eforum platforms can be reached effectiveness in opening some society …