How templars became dualists, was Sufism at fault?

Yesterday I had have honor to speak with One Orthodox Brother who by profession is Philosopher, and in some unintentional conversation about derwish sect in Islam, I’ve thrown label hey they are dualists, on what he (I guess) coz the non-dual doctrine of Sufism got instantly amazed by mine stance, but I’ve avoided polemics coz it was street chitchat … but I do want to check mine stance here Maybe Someone has greater insight that I am not aware about sufism i.e. indeed it has non-dualistic understanding in one aspect, but then how it influenced templars with gnostic dualism, but also why sufis were using dualistic symbols like moon&sun (or is it star) i.e. sultans as sufis actually imbued the very symbol as mark for the Ottoman Empire, altho defacto the main vibe was Sunni!, and lets use this notion as first pivot regards proving that sufism embraced dualism, altho the explanation is bit vague as concealed by particular projected excuse “The appearance of stars represents the souls of the Sufi masters while the moon represents the Prophet” [1][1] which tho cant be found anywhere in Islam and as official symbol actually used since tengri&mazdaistic times by sufis, but officially as state symbol probably once the western advisors entered the ottoman realm when eg. Baron de Tott reformed the ottoman army (while in same time western occultism was infesting the ottoman elites) [1][1] on what further we can add some texts about sufism that paint negative portrait about some projected secrete teachings [2][2][2] on what some will even add that Sufism has kemetic roots thus kind of universalist syncretism [3][3][3] while others will claim even compatibility to taoism or other eastern teachings [4][5] hm be patient check the 15-th footnotes bellow maybe U’ll grasp how so such mindbending alusion are probable …

… and to be more complicated there are claims it is connected to kabalism [6][6][6] to be honest this last footnote gives quite compelling notion that those both jewish and muslim mystic sects (sects in comparison to the core orthodoxy of Juadaism and Islam) are indeed close in their vibe, the question is how much so we would say coz kabbalah draws heavily form the dualistic mazdaism that also sufism follows the same path!?, what in context of kabbalah and Ismailism has indeed base [7] but projection that dont need to be correct if we observe Sufi as muslim label for sage [8][8] yet knowing that ismailism is indeed dualistic [9][9] and Ismailism on other hand influenced various sufi scholars like Al-Nasafi [9] but is this enough so we would say sufism kept such vibe since then “Nasafi(1) describes a phase of Sufi thought which reverted to the old materialistic dualism of Mani. The advocates of this view hold that light and darkness are essential to each other. They are, in reality, two rivers which mix with each other like oil and milk(2), out of which arises the diversity of things. The ideal of human action is freedom from the taint of darkness; and the freedom of light from darkness means the self-consciousness of light as light.” [9] obviously various vibes were entering in and out in sufism through the centuries to the earliest monistic pantheism till dualism, yet we can say its like some kind of esoterically decentralized from Islam and as such the true theory and praxis depend solely on the master, for what I’ll go along the next conclusion by some rediter “Sufism is not inherently Neoplatonic; it has no fixed theology. Sufism is not even, as commonly misconceived, an actual theological school or doctrinal sect of Islam - it is simply an approach to voluntary ritual practices, which may or may not incorporate ideas from various philosophies, whether neoplatonic, gnostic, Judaic, even Indian Vedantic.”[10] still we cant avoid the fact that as such actually cant be dismissed the dualist elephant in their room!, practically seen like this then we can discern their true stamina by symbolism as I’ve pointed in the first footnotes that could be case, altho it could be also found as already pointed with al-nasif dualistic vibe, which some recognize it in Rumi too [11] altho with Rumi it can be said interpretations goes to zoroastrians as they see fit to them obviously as others too “At his funeral, his followers, who also included Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians, each recited from their own scriptures” [12] simply he became consumeristic hype for the age of coldhearted modern rush for enlightenment which is also an doctrine for attain escape from the lower-self in sufism i.e. sufi has own enlightening, but what somehow begs the question in his case is if through trance we can reach God then how as monotheists we differ from the pagan praxis that leads to spiritual awakening in similar way!?, praying in ceremonies under influence of wine or flutes and dancing [13][13][13] hm was this just later derwish deviation from the true sufi traditions or we can contemplate continuity!?

indeed it looks like sufism borrowed through some sages in various times various ascetic principles from the pagan asian or middleeastern cults and/or religions, but concealed the same in most unique way mids Islam, hm judge by Yourself coz there cant be discerned easily which sufi school in which ritual what incorporated as foreign to Islam borrowed knowhow and repacked it so could fit the basic muslim doctrines!, hm hm hm there is one interesting observation about Rumi that sheds notion what was his basic flow in his poetry that per’se dont imply dualism but reflects such notion of main principles of aesthetics in his work “it can be said that overarching theme of rumi’s work is simply death and love", 88 two parts or rather two faces of the doctrine of self-knowledge"it can be said that overarching theme of rumi s work is simply death and love”, 88 two parts or rather two faces of the doctrine of self-knowledge" p-37 [13] but to project firm dualistic stance of his it would be wrong, even if it could be recognized simply knowing how forgeries are common all around the world even in standardized religions then it would be even more probable someone to edit the redactions in the past, and above all we are speaking about mystic muslim sects that share their knowhow also in oral way as pearls for the devoted, add to that that every interpretation has own bias coz whatever reason and it would be hilarious anyhow I to label him as gnostic, altho I’ll say sufism through its many facelifts and shapeshifts of orders eventually became basic well for the templars gnostic water but also later for the rosicrucian and eventually the freemasonic hype that fed&consumed even the Young Turks [14][14] and like that dismantled from within the Mighty Ottoman Empire, almost insane how was easily executed such infiltration [15][15][15] yeah Baksheesh as corrupt hype (search the word in the next footnotes) was probably huge ease for western neopagans to lure the sufi sultans to loosen and allow “their” lets say “trading” infiltration once ottoman elites opened to west fully, something tho that happened with russian elites after the emergence of Boris Godunov onwards!, altho to that infiltration also precedes maybe another way earlier loosening as influx of kabbalism i.e. it was lets say misfortune of wrong infiltration in wrong time “massive number of Sephardic Jews migrate to N Africa, where they find themselves more educated, connected, and sophisticated than the Muslims, finding toleration and moving into govt. positions, which ends up stretching Muslim tolerance; many emigrate to the Ottoman Empire, where Sultan Beyazid II welcomes them into Constantinople, Izmir, Salonika, and other cities in Anatolia, the Balkans and Arab lands; others emigrate to England and Am. - no shortage of bankers, doctors, and lawyers now?” [15][15][15] but also bit later the lust of the ottoman elites to flirt with the western trends of its time [16] and surely “some” western elites didnt wasted time to lay ground for smooth operator infiltration that indeed entered through sufi schools there as prone to mystical search&research, I mean if wine or hashish was not some problem but even more elevated on level of idol coz used as mystical and not just mere uplifting habit, thus if we reason by potent entrance mids Islam of european neopaganism then what would be most useful one than sufism!?, luckily Ataturk escaped that shackles and preserved what could be preserved in the end, tho once tried to eradicate the freemasonic infiltration he was poisoned yet did left blueprint that Muslims dont need to be afraid from “them” [17]


now, all this gives some notion that there is continuity of gnostic vibes in sufism, vibe here would mean we are not sure which sufi masters or schools adopted such secrete doctrine (at least I cant claim certainty), but we lack link between the earlier times and the freemasonic times, and that would be ismailism and johannitism (i.e. templars), altho as I can grasp sassanid sufis with their knowhow were main scribers and advisers on the ottoman court what actually lead to gaining particular stewardship and freedom mids the Ottoman Caliphate altho they exercised obviously bit different metaphysical exploration and affirmation of Islam as elevated by art by rituals by mysticism by wisdom meditation by profane elegance of seeking enlightenment through knowledge or better said they found secluded ways how to survive mids Islam with their inherited persian mazdaistic traditions [18][18] what spread in Ottoman Empire like fire if we know that sufis along the greek byzantine eunuchs were the bureaucratic wheel on the court “On broader scale, we can witness the incorporation of Sufism into the empire building of the … Ottoman (1299-1922) dynasties, who needed the Sufis for expansion and cultural integration …” p.-85 [18] again this dont means all Dervish orders were per’se evil, on contrary there are many that had have put accent on Love, but also there are such that saw beauty in anarchy of interpretation of Islam as, but even see literal anarchic gnostic (or anarchic budist) alike movement as is pointed in the first 13th footnote, again the most logical question would be are all those identical similar and/or inherited revised gnostic islamic hype that obviously influenced or was appealing to templars and influenced them heavily, known as hashishins or socalled asasins “The Templars had adopted the teachings of Hasan-Dan-Sabah in their travels to the middle east, and employed them upon their return when they realized efforts were underway to tax their enormous wealth.” [19][19][19][19][19][19]19][19][19][19][19] hek this last footnote links even modern occult bands like alisterians to templars and these as copycats of sufis chochek or bellydance extasy as Arabic Tantrism, which if true then gives explanation how so entered the sex cult among freemasons altho as syncretism frermasonry probably aligns with other sex cults too lets say as in sufism so as in freemasonry many different lodges also different theory and praxis on the covert main one “Mansur el Hallaj, an outspoken advocate of intoxication as means to spiritual ecstasy, is stated to have been the founder of the still existing Order Templar Orientis in their official docu­mentation, either written by, or under the supervision of the great hashish initiate Aleister Crowley, who at one time was a grand master of the Order. Interestingly el-Hallaj is also con­nected with the pre-European history of alchemy . Not surprisingly many have credited the Templars with being a vital link in this chain of transmission ~ … ~ The famed New Age author, and modern day “stoned philosopher” Robert Anton Wilson, wrote a whole book on the Templars, putting forth a theory that they were practicing a form of Arabic Tantrism, and ingesting hashish , a technique they had picked up from their contact with the Assassins. Unfortunately Wilson offers no documentation, but does comment that; "ambiguous references to a sacred plant or herb appear in their [the Templars ] surviving manuscripts.” [20][20][20] by such logic also, if the two pillars in freemasonry as male/female (final mystery) principle, resembles sex cult that leads to enlightenment by combining of the good and evil (as in kabbalism too), and as such resembles affirmative dualistic soteriology, then so it should in sufism too, yet I havent still learnt about such symbolism, or maybe I did, hm isnt the sufi symbol Moon and Sun such dualistic vibration!?, lets say not all adepts and sages know and/or will reach that level, tho one can fell in tantric ecstasy even by coupling with demons-anathema-to-them through masturbation (or non-masturbation once hooked to the wave)!, still even as such the person cant pass towards the higher realms coz again its filthy (or better said not compatible to such realms as such)!, simply lusts idolized or not, real or projected, in whatever form simply are trap and not liberation for the Soul!, and I’ll grasp somehow U have own by Oath taken partner and through Shear Love to be reached purity of hearth but knowing there is no ideal state in this world thus whatever focus on bodily love will eventually lead to despair and lust or sorrow after the old tasty days when the bell was ringing aloud, aside that even too much blind Love is not true Love coz it can become idol and lead again to perdition through promiscuity if not swinging, simply the ecstasy vibe will be felt by the rest, and coz not modest U indeed will become temptation to urself but also others!, so lets put sufism in such category, tho seen just from that aspect, while freemasonry as witnesses claim not rarely push towards swinging orgies sodomy name it whatever the hungry demons will lust for!, hm in some sects of Islam so such transgression wouldnt be reached with woman was done with children just like is present in kabbalist interpretations of Judaism that if someone among “them” fornicate above till three year old baby he will not sin, indeed even most pervert ecstasy is normal for the wicked one!, so following such knowhow at best leads towards apotheosis but not Salvation while at worst U’ll become thriving monstrum!, yep thats why in Sharia there are such harsh laws coz indeed there are many wicked sects that are packed with members which act but defacto are not Muslims!, so can someone help pointing what when how in this mosaic reasoning is wrong or correct understanding for sufism!?, also I must acknowledge this conclusion it should not be final word on the matter coz I am nor historian nor theolog even less philosopher so would claim utmost finite understanding, and thats why I am on eForum like this where others can correct me if think somewhere I’ve strayed with my by particular footnotes derived logic! btw I did cheery picked sources coz otherwise would had have never built firm argument that is word for islamic sect with dualistic vibe in its theory and praxis, altho by affirmative dualism instead negative one i.e. through trance reaching enlightenment, something like there is no evil ways or by such too one can reach enlightenment, yeah which one of its own delusion!?, and btw here I dont judge them as some sinners worthy for ridiculing, on contrary as Orthodox Christian I respect their free will but I do turn the mirror to them in this case by pointing to particular observable errors or hints about probable wrong knowhow!, thus dont see me as some kind of judge, but just someone who as halfliterate wants to get as much as possible of the whole picture so would build argument how so zoroastrism through sassanid sufis entered Islam and survived till these days through Darvish Islamic Sects, personally when I see them somewhere I observe them as cultural occurrence in my surrounding, tho would warn my friend Hey Watch Out not to be pulled and carried away coz it takes very little so tommorow on Liturgy someone to pop up smoking ganja and make some own Orthodox Christian Sect where praying would go through induced trance rituals, yeah reaching just apotheosis like that, but where, hm maybe in the bottomless pit as by reward!?

Small but important correction about the previous post!

above I’ve done one mistake, “which tho cant be found anywhere in Islam and as official symbol actually used since tengri&mazdaistic times by sufis” what would be illogical claim coz Islam dont came after them, but gnostic heresies survived and later infiltrated in Islam as were earlier trying to infiltrate in Christianity!, covert infiltration indeed, altho which in Orthodox Christianity once detected were promptly refuted and removed (eg. when Christianity wanst recognized The Holy Apostles were keeping the purity of Christian Theology while later The Bible along All Dogmas and Canons were standardized by Holy Councils and verified by Emperor), still heresies constantly were popping out and Emperors again and again needed to intervene … this would be mine understanding but not based on apologetic argumentation of OC theologians, simply I am nor educated firmly nor explored deeply theoria but rather has praxis that gave me Clarity so even as halfliterate would easily grasp what is The Truth as Orthodox Christian!, what says big time how I can even less come to fine understanding of Islam and its tenets or heresies unless I dont try like this to explore it through mosaic reasoning!, in a way I am aware by the witnessing of Elder Cleopa that Our Almighty Lord will have indeed Righteous Judgement above all of us as Monotheists but also pagans too So Dont Judge with narrow mind (check the link at the end of the next footnote [1]), altho sadly but some Muslims not aware about us like Christians as fully awaken for The True Nature of Our Almighty Lord some of them indeed in their various examinations label us also as errored altho Monotheists [2] what would be even more ridiculous if they claim utmost obedience to the Prophet Mohamed but not respecting his will to give exclusion for persecution of Christians [3] and my firm belief is that if modern apologetic debates become normal occurrence even themselves will grasp our position as complete especially if we know that we have similar eschatology regards Jesus Christ that we as Orthodox Christians recognize it as Incarnation of Our Almighty Lord that will come again before The Final Judgement just as is seen by Islam too but there its seen as Prophet to whom Archangel Michael will give the keys of this world so He would gather His Umma [4][4] so what this means To Whom Belongs The Umma!?, and why this kind of digression in this post, simply we all need to see apologetic debates among theologians so we would understand eachother positions firmly and like that finding tolerance as neighbors eg. indeed find very informative JayD recently [5][5] what gives me from Christian perspective crush course so would employ correctly the main postulate of Love through Christ so would reach clarity and instead to affraid to tolerate pagans and neopagans that live among us or trying to sell their knowhow on small door through modern media in form of movie or music subconscious programming, especially now when we live under the law of secularism and however however likes can flush its own knowledge however errored it is!, altho that dont means blind love and taking part in their deeds still in same time also dont means our blind judgement but asks always for Dialog till Clarity who is who and why its doing something!, yet in Islam that is bit harder coz Islam per’se above all rest on The Law and then after The Love, while in Christianity The Love is Fulfilment of The Law coz we are weak but through Christ we can heal and cover our incapability to fulfill Our Oath for The Law from The Old Testament, but in same time The Final Judgement will be most harsher for us coz we would not have no excuse why we didnt have understanding and temperance regards whoever sinned or errored even attacked us i.e. we need to be Aware for Our Gift Through Christ thus to Forgive and ask for Peace even when that looks impossible i.e. we are attacked physically when need to find way first to evade evil and then after if cant to defend not from pride but from necessity eg. to survive!


if I know something about Islam and its main two branches Shia and Sunni I know that both of them follow Orthodox Islam, but altho modern sufism obviously surfaced through sassanid sufis still didnt survived as heretical muslim vibe in Persia but took refuge in the Ottoman Empire [1] where tho also didnt had have some ultra expansion, yet coz those sufis were educated simply occupied the sultans court and like that influenced the elites maybe to astray, but didnt corrupted the Sunni Islam in the Caliphate!, yet how much such esoteric occult pagan teachings were trying to infiltrate Islam on such elitist level I cant say, simply havent explored Islam thoroughly so would know and claim certainty, (maybe someone can offer some influence diagram) yet it could be seen just by the proposed footnoted info in the previous post that that was indeed case!, the question is who is who among such sufis (i.e. devoted teachers), and its obviously that not all sufis stand firm in Orthodox Islam but even worst misuse the label Sufi what would be as pointed in the 8th footnote in the previous post an label for Sahaba, but as could be see from this next footnote [2] defacto later all even heretic muslims were borrowing or was thrown then such title, thus now we have kind of paradox that even sunni muslims are in need to defend the Sufi title as derived from Sahaba, but how to explain what is not and who is not sufi to the western observer when someone hijacked the term and pretend to claim even separate islamic religious practices known as sufism as correct one!, what I know tho is that dervish sects defacto embraced monism as universalism i.e. perennialism (all religious paths lead to God) what in essence is wrong [2] that has nothing with Islam eg. going in ecstasy through pagan alike meditation under influence of drinks or herbs and/or felling in trance by movements to reach enlightenment!, wrong!, now am I certain about this Yep utmost certain coz as practicing ex-pagan I’ll witness that without Fullness of Faith i.e. Righteousness regards the accepted Monotheistic Oath and Law (that arose from the Clarity > that is reached by Grace > that is gained by Prayers and Merit > due to Purity > reached through Fasting and Virtues) without it people will fell in error, and even more if expect even less if believe that someone can reach correct understanding for The Truth by living in trance (or sinful life) that is wrong by all means!, So modern sufism how wrongly syncretizes various ascetic or theologian tradition incompatible to the Oath and Law in Orthodox Islam is indeed heretic point in contrast to it!

in case someone has will to bring some examination of this logicism of mine, resting on particular info from net, and knowing that sufism CANT be narrowed only to Islam, but as heretical sects has ties even to kabbalism, is indeed kinky to be examined as such, even if we take in account only the modern dervish trends that claim suni affiliation, simply such Sufi Conspiracy cant be examined from point of Islam, but as covert new age teachings that got hidden place in some form of mystic cellar where would stay alive, otherwise risked extermination as some mongol tnegri vibe or persian mazdaistic vibe among the newly converted muslims in middle east and central asia!, an strange occurrence that we cant say whether influenced kabbalists or vice versa eg. when got in contact!, hm knowing that kabbalism is in essence zoroastrian knowhow that jews took with themselves while in babilonian exile thus the logic leans more on the second vice versa assumption!?, but maybe as dispersed they’ve forgotten own wrong mystic knowhow and then later when as sephards came back to the middle east after the expulsion from Spain got awaken again!?, or maybe the earlier manichean gnostic vibe through paulicians and bogomils as dualism passed till patarens and cathars and from them to sephardic jews in Spain and from there again came back to middle east once they were expelled from Spain!?, that maybe proves why occult sufis didnt reach in full swing dualistic cosmology but just ontological dualism [3][3] thus the Moon&Sun symbolism is just wrong dualistic mark then!?, hm those who understand that in such occult traditions symbolism plays huge role in explanation of the secrete teaching would not agree!, yet how I would claim certain dualist tendencies by symbol that per’se shouldnt be mark for all sufi sects!?, how we can say their monism resembles dualism, even if seen as affirmative dualism regards their enlightenment, what still its not at all clear mark for all dervish sufism!?, hm here indeed only eventual intermix with kabbalists can give some notion for such possibility coz kabbalah is already exposed and finally one firm direction of kabbalism!, and as could be seen from the “Ibn Kammūna” link in the next footnote they indeed intertwine on some levels “Just how much Jewish ethics, biblical, rabbinic, and medieval, Ibn Kammuna has included is difficult to determine. Jewish and Islamic ethics have been intertwined all along; by the thirteenth century, some rabbinic ideas had become thoroughly islamized on the one hand, and, on the other, Jewish versions of Sufism were well-established. Jews cited snippets of the Qur’an as apothegms of universal wisdom, rather than as the scripture of a particular faith community. So when Ibn Kammuna says that “The beginning (ra’s , cf. Hebrew reishit ) of wisdom is fear of God,” is he consciously importing the verse from Psalms 111:10? Overall, Ibn Kammuna appears to have formulated an original “Abrahamic” philosophical piety. Both the philosophical foundations underpinnings (concepts of the deity and of humanity) as well as the moral values and spiritual exercises, were carefully crafted so as to be acceptable to all monotheists” [4] (just to add Christian Ethics dont rests on such wisdom [5] but maybe kammunas intentions were towards universalism thus somehow that last part of the last sentence sounds as if he had have intention for infiltration or better said to appeal to Monotheists so would influence them!?), anyway here and there can be found other texts about flirt of sufism and kabbalism as modern medieval occult mysticisms, but that again begs the question how much their enlightenment isnt the same and the one, that later was passed on to the european neopagan hype!?

The Question of Sufi Influence on the Early Kabbalah ~ The Question of Sufi Influence on the Early Kabbalah |

again I’ll need to emphasize Dont Judge coz we can only speculate which modern sufi order embraced what, hm 1. on first level (those above mentioned) esoteric sufis embraced pantheism as monism i.e. everything is one, in a way not just equaling as in dualism two gods, but saying that everything is in God, what would be even more wrong to equal all beings as created an equal to The Omnipotent Creator (to banalize that heresy - as if everything its kind dream of His), aside that 2. on second advanced level, such errored monistic basis further goes in error with various syncretization from various mystical schools, as if indeed we speak about new agers of its own time, and when we will see all the rest traits of that esoteric sufism then as such definitely cross in occultism!, now some say sufism is not necessary pantheistic [6] and that can be explained only if we say which sufism!, thus I’ll need indeed not to bother whether or not that dervish sufism has or not this or that traits but whether could lead them to Salvation, and in my humble opinion that is Role to Our Almighty Lord Jesus Christ to Judge us on The Final Judgement!, lets say they are utmost heretical sinners regards Orthodox Islam, yet if judged as pagans and kept the principle of Love as highest among their virtues thus it will do everything from and by Love without hate or judgement to others, and like that their conscious clear thus as Elder Kleopa states it will reach merit for Salvation even as pagans [7] logically if didnt made haram and blasphemy of Allah as The Father that is known to us as Christians through The Son Jesus Christ … eventually the problem is what practices of theirs can have ultra wrong idolizing dualistic form or which dervish sect has such practices eg. that influenced templars and probably those are just one ismailian hashishin sect!, hm cna someone explain this more neatly!?, is this reasoning correct i.e. that modern Darwish Sufis have nothing to do with those that influenced templars!?, take Ur time!